This is a quick follow up to my look at ForteBuilder and Cyber Incomes Inc. and the MLM company they are associated with New Vision International. If you read the last entry you will remember that ForteBuilder and Cyber Incomes Inc. were merely a sponsor and recruiting system for the real company of New Vision International, even if they didn’t tell as much in all the computer generated e-mail traffic they sent me. In fact, I am not sure when in the process they would get around to telling me that since it seemed they were more interested in getting you on their roles and collecting their $19.95 a month fee for their assistance in your having a successful business. Since I couldn’t tell if that meant recruiting for you or just sending you more computer generated e-mail traffic telling you to do what they did I decided to forgo forming an alliance with them.
I did become interested in New Vision International however and decided to take a look. The Google search that lead me too their web site was really where I should have started looking in the first place. Here is where I found out information about the product, or should I say products. Where the best I could get out of ForteBuilder and Cyber Incomes was that the product was an Acai juice, the New Vision International web site showed that they did more. The main product seems more like diet systems that are centered on the use of Forte juice (the Acai juice spoken of), Mangosteen juice and OrganicGreens®. You can of course buy the stuff outside of the diet packages, as well as other vitamin and mineral supplement products.
Now the amazing thing is I could find out about the products content, size and price with very little effort on this web site. Well done. I was even able to find out that the company was founded in 1995 by the President and CEO BK Boreyko, is based in Scottsdale, Arizona, is family owned and operated, and is raking in many dollars for their efforts. In other words they appear to be a successful organization though since they are privately held I cannot see the financial statements that would tell the real amount of their profitability.
The web site goes on to tell BK Borelyko’s story of how he was living in Canada working in another unnamed MLM that went under that was the driving force behind starting the new company.
Now the really, really amazing thing about the web site is they are recruiting new members directly and explain all the things that didn’t seem to be too important to ForteBuilder Cyber people that were trying to recruit me. They even have a page or two (several in fact) dedicated to the Compensation Plan. Amazing, simply amazing.
Did I sign up immediately with my new found information, and did I sign up directly with the company figuring that if ForteBuilder and Cyber Incomes couldn’t even tell me what the product was how could I trust them to relay any relevant information on the MLM building side of things, and was I all jazzed up about starting another new venture into the world of nutrition?...Nah.
Although the product sounds good it is still $36.95 retail for a 32 ounce bottle with no extraordinary claims that go with it. There are really quite a lot of this types of products on the market today as I said before and many sell for as little as an eight the price. The member price is only $32.95 which is not a very big margin for a retail business meaning the real program is again a friends and family signup MLM kind of business.
So on the MLM side is it worth it? There is an annual fee to be a member is called a Content Management Fee and is a lot more reasonable at $5.95 but what does it do exactly, I am not sure, but they say it is to help them cover content cost and that it is not a franchise fee I am guessing there are legal issues there. There is an order form that had my number pre filled in; the same number issued to me by ForteBuilder/Cyber Inc., how convenient for them. There is also information on where you can and can’t sell the product, which seemed kind of limiting.
But what about the compensation plan? It is there, listed as well as short video synopsis staring the company president and CEO BK Borelyko. Does it make sense? Not to me. I am beginning to think it might just be me. I have run across a couple of these things now and there are many similarities but it is still in a completely new language, one that I am not yet familiar with. There are many different levels, up lines and down lines, team building, and more, some of which make some sense or at least there is something there enough for me to make assumptions on however they could be all wrong.
It is all the other talk that gets my head spinning. Talk of QV (qualifying volume) or CV (commissionable volume), dynamic levels, directors, and about a dozen bonuses that you may or may not qualify for depending on your group and QV/CV for a given volume period. You become one of these if this happens and you get this if that happens and you become one of those if two of them are under you which means…ugh stop already, my head is hurting. Not really, but come on. Why be upfront with as much as you have to this point only to lose me in this game called compensation plan. You even tell me not to get too concerned if I don’t understand it now because I will in time. Hooey. Hogwash.
I think it was Warren Buffet that said (and I am paraphrasing here) that if it can’t be explained simply on a paper napkin over lunch then it is too complicated and he would not invest in it. That might have kept him out of a lot of good high tech companies but it also kept him out of a lot of nonsense as well. There is no reason to make the rules of the game so hard to understand. On the other hand, those that get to know the rules and understand them are in a much better position to win that game and in the world of MLM that is why there is a small group of people in each company that win and win big. They understand the rules, play the right game and take home all the bonuses, the same bonuses that they brag about to get you interested in playing the game in the first place.
So until I understand the language (and I am beginning to think there are common threads throughout the MLM world) I will not understand the rules, and until I understand the rules I will not have much chance at winning the game, and until I have a reasonable chance at winning at the game I will not play that game but will instead look for another better game to play. One I can understand and one I have an honest shot at winning.
O.K. so I wasn’t very quick in my feedback, but doing your homework does take a little time and look at how much more I was exposed to MLM wise. I think I am a little wiser for the effort. I am a numbers guy and if I can’t see through the numbers or crunch them to the point they work then I know it is time to start looking elsewhere. After I had looked at the product and its pricing I knew this was not for me but I dug deeper and came away with a little better insight on the business side of things.
This is Ed Nef with a view from the Farr West.
Showing posts with label New Vision. Show all posts
Showing posts with label New Vision. Show all posts
02 January 2010
26 December 2009
The tell of ForteBuilder and Cyber Incomes, Inc.
In looking at the various money making ideas that are out there somehow I have come across one called ForteBuilder with the sponsor Cyber Incomes, Inc.; or should I say they found me. I started receiving e-mail from them nearly three months ago with the latest stating that my three months of inactivity were nearly up and they were about to give up on me.
I guess it is about time for you to go ahead and give up on me ForteBuilder because I had pretty much given up on you shortly after the first e-mail, but I did try to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Speaking of e-mails, I have received 102 that I have saved (I might have thrown away a few) and all of them were roughly the same message in a computer generated form with about 6 variations. Once I had the gist of it, it took no time to go through later versions because they were all about the same, (great time saver for me). Also, by way of this repetition, it was quickly evident that they were computer generated items that were personalized the way all computers do so well, by inserting your name automatically in certain areas of the message. O.K. no biggie, seen it before, will see it again, but 102 times to someone you are wishing to build a business relationship with, gosh, I feel so important.
I think the e-mails started when in my searching I happened on to a web site that claimed a wonderful money making idea and to just enter here (I don’t know why these places always hide behind a cover web page) and the very next page that opens up is a call for all your contact information. Now why they need that before they give you any information at all is also beyond my comprehension but I was willing to play a little because the first few lines were enticing. Trouble is they wanted more information than I was willing to give and the page would not go to the next page (the one with all the information or so I hoped) without it so instead of giving anything more I cleared out what I had entered and went my merry way not realizing that they had already captured my e-mail address (one piece of information too many) and would now include me in their weekly computer generated delivery system. The only problem was, I still didn’t have any real information on them or more importantly the business.
So the e-mails came and welcomed me in to the ForteBuilder team and that I could with no obligation test drive the website and with that they issued me a temporary ID # and password. I was bestowed the honorary title of Pre-Enrollee and they were beginning to build a down line under me. It got even more exciting as I learned that whenever any of these pre-enrollees below me made the decision to “upgrade” to paid member that I would receive an e-mail notifying me that I had instantly earned a commission. In my excitement I somehow missed the part about me having to become a paid member myself to realize that commission. I found it out later with much rereading.
I followed the included web link to try to find out more about this opportunity to use the easy system and make serious money and actually see if I could learn anything about this business opportunity as I hadn’t been able to in the early attempts. Guess what?
After much time and effort I still know very, very little about this company, my supposed sponsor, the payout plan or the pay in plan, or more importantly the product itself. Now I fancy myself a pretty good detective at times and thought that I might be able to discover at the very least the product because without a real product you have nothing. Turns out they produce an Acai Juice, shake mix, calcium chewable, diet something or rather.
Sorry guys, but there are dozens of outfits in the Acai business, and the one page that talks about product doesn’t give any detail as too what yours contains let alone what makes it stand out above the rest. It only has generic statements about the benefits of Acai with the ever present disclaimer that the statements have not been approved by the FDA. Also missing from the description of the products, its ingredients or method of use is the price of the product a key component in any merchandising endeavor.
I think the reason for neglecting this information is because they are more interested in selling the MLM than the product. In fact, you cannot buy the product directly from the site, but a sample does come with your paid upgrade to full member. Now this is really pretty cheap compared to a lot of programs that charge a lot more to get your foot in the door so for just under $20 you can take a fling, tempting but again, why should I have to pay up front to see what the program is let alone the product? Why not let me know up front what the deal is then let me decide if I want to play or not.
Well if you go to the next page, the order page, or upgrade page (whatever) you will see in bright red letters “75% of all millionaires are self made”. Wait a minute, does this mean that I will have to do all the work myself if I am going to make it (the answer to this question is always yes by the way) and does that mean it isn’t going to be as easy as they say and that the automatic plan that they are using is working for them and not for me?
At the top of the order form is the request for me to give them more personal info including the all important payment method, and then the fun begins. You get to choose which plan you want to start with. Each plan is just $19.95…the first month. Then every month after that you will be charged anywhere from $75.95 to 129.95 on top of the $19.95, but this will cover your monthly buy of product and help make you eligible for your payouts and bonuses, whatever they are and however that works.
Okay they said somewhere in the prose that they would send you a sample of the product with your first months $19.95 but looking over the order sheet page, I don’t see it. I do see that after you pay this amount you will receive a welcome letter (computer generated I’m sure) as part of the “Free Business Preview Pack”. This will include a success report, a brochure of why people drink Acai and a how to make money CD. No mention of product, sample or otherwise. No mention of the program, payout or tiers only briefly brushed over in the order form. In fact the product doesn’t start to come until the next month (after the large monthly additional charge) and the billing starts going to another company, New Vision which is the supplier of the juice and commission checks.
Are you starting to get the warm fuzzies yet?
Now it is not without some computer generated effort that they have tried to get me hooked. They offered up links to a youtube testimonial which is o.k., nothing great but a homemade testimonial of what can be accomplished diet wise by a motivated individual. It does allude to the product and that there might be more than one product available and that she might be a success at this business venture. One small detail, the link on the youtube site to her personal web site is a dead link. Therefore this is a dead end.
The other offered help is from the sponsor, who offers to hold weekly conference calls to anyone willing to call long distance on your own dime. (Other outfits will often at least extend a toll free number.) I thought too much of my time and my dime to try the call as I really only expected a rah-rah session that wouldn’t really answer any questions without having a long drawn out parlay. Now they also offered to answer my questions by e-mail but aren’t they the same ones that created all the questions in the first place by not providing any details in any of their myriad of computer generated e-mails? Do I really want to open up that kind of dialogue? Besides how good are they really?
Well if you go to the leader board section of the back office at the web site that I can access because of my temporary ID and password, I found that Cyber Incomes, Inc was number 7 for the month of November with a total recruitment of 13. Is this impressive or not?
If you consider that I have a built up down line of potential members (that is they are all pre-enrollees like I am having not paid to upgrade to full member) totalizing 6,792 in the past three months as reported by their back office genealogy sheet for me, and that their ID numbers associated with my genealogy range from 9123530 to 9418148 an increase of nearly 300,000 during that same time frame, and that for the month of November, the top 35 recruiting leaders for this system only recruited a total of 250 members and that the recruiters on the list after position 12 had 2 or less recruits, and knowing that the only way to have MLM really work tremendous wonders is to gain a large following under you, I must say that I am not too impressed. It is said that a 1% – 3% response rate from a mass marketing effort is consider a success. They are slightly behind that but just think of what that means your chances are.
Not only do you have to gain a down line but you have to keep it. Without knowing what the payout is, and only just guessing what the pay in is based on the sign up order form, I would guess that there is a large rate of attrition. That is one of the unspoken truths of many MLMs.
But they will assist you, or so they claim. That is another area I would have liked to have seen more detailed information. They did refer me to another site that gave millionaire training from the hands of a millionaire. I think what this turns into is another revenue stream for the company or its sponsors as they try to promote your success by promoting their products. I have seen a fair share of companies that rope you in for level one, only to present level two for the intermediate student and the level three for the more advanced, each time providing additional product or services that you can’t live without and new prices that you can’t afford.
Lastly, if you Google New Vision and select the one that isn’t the leading newspaper of Uganda, you will finally find out a little more about the product and the program. So why didn’t I start there? Because it took me a long time to work through the noise to get to the meat of the issue. In other words, New Vision wasn’t mentioned until the order form and it was there that I found out that they are the basis for the company. Cyber Incomes, Inc. and ForteBuilder are just recruiting shells whose only function it seems is to recruit.
So did they do their job? I do not know enough about New Vision International to make that call yet but as far as Cyber Incomes Inc. and ForteBuilder are concerned no, not very well at all. I was not well informed (at least not well enough to take the step forward) and most of the information that I would like to have had to make an informed decision was masked or hidden behind hyperbole. The glammer and glitz were not enough to overcome my logical questioning nature (and it never should be), and the lack of substance kept me looking for more answers. In the end, they look like they were taking a cut off the top directly from you for their recruiting efforts and gave little more than an introduction to the real company for the trouble. You know, I could almost live with that if they were upfront about it from the beginning but I feel like the deception was deliberate and therefore no trust is established.
Did I do my job? That would be a resounding yes. I took the time and effort needed to answer any and all my questions. I looked in as many places as I had available. I tried many web searches to find out if the company I was thinking about working with was legitimate and worth creating a business alliance with. In the end, I came up with the conclusion that they were not for me.
Am I disappointed, maybe a little, but not really. I have added to my arsenal of knowledge a few more things to look for when making these evaluations. My skepticism has grown a little more but my hope is still intact, it wasn’t washed away completely as it might have been if I had suckered into a program with overly enthusiastic expectations, only to have them washed away after a few months of heavy automatic deductions with minimal rewards. That would really be disheartening.
If you are really interested in pursuing a business venture of any value, you must be willing to put forth the effort that it takes. I believe that there can be 'get rich quick' and 'get rich easy' plans that can succeed but they still take work and time and effort and knowledge. The ones that come to you on a silver platter with all the trimmings, and no effort on your part seldom if ever deliver the promised goods.
But also, just because one way failed to deliver does not mean that there are no more possibilities left for me. In fact, I think there are numerous possible ways for me out there, and I will keep looking for each and every opportunity that passes by. Many will be made just for me. And many are made just for you. Let’s keep looking together.
This is Ed Nef with a view from the Farr West.
I guess it is about time for you to go ahead and give up on me ForteBuilder because I had pretty much given up on you shortly after the first e-mail, but I did try to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Speaking of e-mails, I have received 102 that I have saved (I might have thrown away a few) and all of them were roughly the same message in a computer generated form with about 6 variations. Once I had the gist of it, it took no time to go through later versions because they were all about the same, (great time saver for me). Also, by way of this repetition, it was quickly evident that they were computer generated items that were personalized the way all computers do so well, by inserting your name automatically in certain areas of the message. O.K. no biggie, seen it before, will see it again, but 102 times to someone you are wishing to build a business relationship with, gosh, I feel so important.
I think the e-mails started when in my searching I happened on to a web site that claimed a wonderful money making idea and to just enter here (I don’t know why these places always hide behind a cover web page) and the very next page that opens up is a call for all your contact information. Now why they need that before they give you any information at all is also beyond my comprehension but I was willing to play a little because the first few lines were enticing. Trouble is they wanted more information than I was willing to give and the page would not go to the next page (the one with all the information or so I hoped) without it so instead of giving anything more I cleared out what I had entered and went my merry way not realizing that they had already captured my e-mail address (one piece of information too many) and would now include me in their weekly computer generated delivery system. The only problem was, I still didn’t have any real information on them or more importantly the business.
So the e-mails came and welcomed me in to the ForteBuilder team and that I could with no obligation test drive the website and with that they issued me a temporary ID # and password. I was bestowed the honorary title of Pre-Enrollee and they were beginning to build a down line under me. It got even more exciting as I learned that whenever any of these pre-enrollees below me made the decision to “upgrade” to paid member that I would receive an e-mail notifying me that I had instantly earned a commission. In my excitement I somehow missed the part about me having to become a paid member myself to realize that commission. I found it out later with much rereading.
I followed the included web link to try to find out more about this opportunity to use the easy system and make serious money and actually see if I could learn anything about this business opportunity as I hadn’t been able to in the early attempts. Guess what?
After much time and effort I still know very, very little about this company, my supposed sponsor, the payout plan or the pay in plan, or more importantly the product itself. Now I fancy myself a pretty good detective at times and thought that I might be able to discover at the very least the product because without a real product you have nothing. Turns out they produce an Acai Juice, shake mix, calcium chewable, diet something or rather.
Sorry guys, but there are dozens of outfits in the Acai business, and the one page that talks about product doesn’t give any detail as too what yours contains let alone what makes it stand out above the rest. It only has generic statements about the benefits of Acai with the ever present disclaimer that the statements have not been approved by the FDA. Also missing from the description of the products, its ingredients or method of use is the price of the product a key component in any merchandising endeavor.
I think the reason for neglecting this information is because they are more interested in selling the MLM than the product. In fact, you cannot buy the product directly from the site, but a sample does come with your paid upgrade to full member. Now this is really pretty cheap compared to a lot of programs that charge a lot more to get your foot in the door so for just under $20 you can take a fling, tempting but again, why should I have to pay up front to see what the program is let alone the product? Why not let me know up front what the deal is then let me decide if I want to play or not.
Well if you go to the next page, the order page, or upgrade page (whatever) you will see in bright red letters “75% of all millionaires are self made”. Wait a minute, does this mean that I will have to do all the work myself if I am going to make it (the answer to this question is always yes by the way) and does that mean it isn’t going to be as easy as they say and that the automatic plan that they are using is working for them and not for me?
At the top of the order form is the request for me to give them more personal info including the all important payment method, and then the fun begins. You get to choose which plan you want to start with. Each plan is just $19.95…the first month. Then every month after that you will be charged anywhere from $75.95 to 129.95 on top of the $19.95, but this will cover your monthly buy of product and help make you eligible for your payouts and bonuses, whatever they are and however that works.
Okay they said somewhere in the prose that they would send you a sample of the product with your first months $19.95 but looking over the order sheet page, I don’t see it. I do see that after you pay this amount you will receive a welcome letter (computer generated I’m sure) as part of the “Free Business Preview Pack”. This will include a success report, a brochure of why people drink Acai and a how to make money CD. No mention of product, sample or otherwise. No mention of the program, payout or tiers only briefly brushed over in the order form. In fact the product doesn’t start to come until the next month (after the large monthly additional charge) and the billing starts going to another company, New Vision which is the supplier of the juice and commission checks.
Are you starting to get the warm fuzzies yet?
Now it is not without some computer generated effort that they have tried to get me hooked. They offered up links to a youtube testimonial which is o.k., nothing great but a homemade testimonial of what can be accomplished diet wise by a motivated individual. It does allude to the product and that there might be more than one product available and that she might be a success at this business venture. One small detail, the link on the youtube site to her personal web site is a dead link. Therefore this is a dead end.
The other offered help is from the sponsor, who offers to hold weekly conference calls to anyone willing to call long distance on your own dime. (Other outfits will often at least extend a toll free number.) I thought too much of my time and my dime to try the call as I really only expected a rah-rah session that wouldn’t really answer any questions without having a long drawn out parlay. Now they also offered to answer my questions by e-mail but aren’t they the same ones that created all the questions in the first place by not providing any details in any of their myriad of computer generated e-mails? Do I really want to open up that kind of dialogue? Besides how good are they really?
Well if you go to the leader board section of the back office at the web site that I can access because of my temporary ID and password, I found that Cyber Incomes, Inc was number 7 for the month of November with a total recruitment of 13. Is this impressive or not?
If you consider that I have a built up down line of potential members (that is they are all pre-enrollees like I am having not paid to upgrade to full member) totalizing 6,792 in the past three months as reported by their back office genealogy sheet for me, and that their ID numbers associated with my genealogy range from 9123530 to 9418148 an increase of nearly 300,000 during that same time frame, and that for the month of November, the top 35 recruiting leaders for this system only recruited a total of 250 members and that the recruiters on the list after position 12 had 2 or less recruits, and knowing that the only way to have MLM really work tremendous wonders is to gain a large following under you, I must say that I am not too impressed. It is said that a 1% – 3% response rate from a mass marketing effort is consider a success. They are slightly behind that but just think of what that means your chances are.
Not only do you have to gain a down line but you have to keep it. Without knowing what the payout is, and only just guessing what the pay in is based on the sign up order form, I would guess that there is a large rate of attrition. That is one of the unspoken truths of many MLMs.
But they will assist you, or so they claim. That is another area I would have liked to have seen more detailed information. They did refer me to another site that gave millionaire training from the hands of a millionaire. I think what this turns into is another revenue stream for the company or its sponsors as they try to promote your success by promoting their products. I have seen a fair share of companies that rope you in for level one, only to present level two for the intermediate student and the level three for the more advanced, each time providing additional product or services that you can’t live without and new prices that you can’t afford.
Lastly, if you Google New Vision and select the one that isn’t the leading newspaper of Uganda, you will finally find out a little more about the product and the program. So why didn’t I start there? Because it took me a long time to work through the noise to get to the meat of the issue. In other words, New Vision wasn’t mentioned until the order form and it was there that I found out that they are the basis for the company. Cyber Incomes, Inc. and ForteBuilder are just recruiting shells whose only function it seems is to recruit.
So did they do their job? I do not know enough about New Vision International to make that call yet but as far as Cyber Incomes Inc. and ForteBuilder are concerned no, not very well at all. I was not well informed (at least not well enough to take the step forward) and most of the information that I would like to have had to make an informed decision was masked or hidden behind hyperbole. The glammer and glitz were not enough to overcome my logical questioning nature (and it never should be), and the lack of substance kept me looking for more answers. In the end, they look like they were taking a cut off the top directly from you for their recruiting efforts and gave little more than an introduction to the real company for the trouble. You know, I could almost live with that if they were upfront about it from the beginning but I feel like the deception was deliberate and therefore no trust is established.
Did I do my job? That would be a resounding yes. I took the time and effort needed to answer any and all my questions. I looked in as many places as I had available. I tried many web searches to find out if the company I was thinking about working with was legitimate and worth creating a business alliance with. In the end, I came up with the conclusion that they were not for me.
Am I disappointed, maybe a little, but not really. I have added to my arsenal of knowledge a few more things to look for when making these evaluations. My skepticism has grown a little more but my hope is still intact, it wasn’t washed away completely as it might have been if I had suckered into a program with overly enthusiastic expectations, only to have them washed away after a few months of heavy automatic deductions with minimal rewards. That would really be disheartening.
If you are really interested in pursuing a business venture of any value, you must be willing to put forth the effort that it takes. I believe that there can be 'get rich quick' and 'get rich easy' plans that can succeed but they still take work and time and effort and knowledge. The ones that come to you on a silver platter with all the trimmings, and no effort on your part seldom if ever deliver the promised goods.
But also, just because one way failed to deliver does not mean that there are no more possibilities left for me. In fact, I think there are numerous possible ways for me out there, and I will keep looking for each and every opportunity that passes by. Many will be made just for me. And many are made just for you. Let’s keep looking together.
This is Ed Nef with a view from the Farr West.
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